Showing posts with label dialogue. Show all posts
Showing posts with label dialogue. Show all posts

15 March 2015

Why Christians tend not to see Mohammed as a prophet

 A question on a Christian-Muslim forum I am part of, from a Muslim:

What are the reasons why Christians do not believe that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was a of Allah?
My response was necessarily condensed (because it's on a forum where long answers are not best given in the interest of maintaining a dialogue. Longer pieces are generally best referred off list to blog posts or articles elsewhere.

I suspect a lot of Christians, on the basis that prophecy is a gift of the spirit (and if they are not among those who believe said gifts ceased to be bestowed once the NT canon was fixed) could entertain the idea that Mohammed might be, in some sense, a prophet. However, in the mirror-image of some Muslim claims that the NT must have been corrupted because it is interpreted as failing to confirm the Qu'ran and sunna, the same misalignment would be seen to disqualify (from a Christian point of view) at least some of the revelations attributed to Mohammed.
There is another potential difficulty (though I've never seen or heard it discussed): the means of revelation; by and large, revelations given by angels are attributed to the angel, not to the person who hears or sees them. A prophet is generally understood to have received the revelation directly themselves.
For those less familiar with Muslim and Christian perspectives in this area of consideration, some elucidations might be in order.

So first off, as I understand it. Mohammed, according to the story as I have heard it and read it, was meditating according to his practice in a cave when he was seized and held tight by an angel ("Jibreel" which is the Arabic for 'Gabriel') and told to "Recite" (the word Qur'an roughly translates as 'Recitation'). He then receives revelations over the next few years (I have always presumed that Jibreel was the continuing conveyancer, but I guess that could be wrong). Eventually these recitals were written down and put into order before the memorisers died out. 

I guess that it is Muhammed's role as the one who reveals the angel's words that attracts the title 'prophet'. I note, however, that the Shahada (the Muslim root declaration of faith: "I testify that there is one God and Muhammed is the messenger of God"). There is some evidence to suggest that for a time the first clause of the Shahada was the only clause and at some point later the declaration about Muhammed was added. It's interesting that this designates Muhammed as "rasul" of God. The word rasul is not really prophet but 'messenger' or sometimes "apostle" (one sent with a message). So, the root declaration of Muslim faith does not assert Mohammed as a prophet.

Many Christians automatically reject an assertion that Mohammed is a prophet of God because the difference between the message of Islam as it is propounded today and the basic understandings of the Christian gospel appear to be contradictory. If Christian proclamation is basically right, then Muslim proclamation must be to some degree flawed. Therefore, the reasoning goes; either but not both messages can be accepted.

Of course, it may be possible to dig into those basic stances and problematise them. And dialogue sometimes does.

There is also the understanding of what a prophet might be. I write as a Christian and I confess that I have not looked extensively at what Muslim traditions might say about prophethood. I would assume, from the way that Muslim friends and acquaintances have reasoned in my presence, that the term to some degree is defined by the person of Mohammed. This a priori is not an approach Christians on the whole would give much weight to; we'd have to be Muslims to accept it methodologically. We can understand the move, however, by analogy, since it is similar to Christian practice of understanding the Divine by central reference to Jesus benMaryam of Nazareth (as a recent theologian put it: "God is Christlike, and in God there is no unChristlikeness at all").

Broadly speaking the Christian world seems to work with a couple of overlapping views of prophethood. One derives from the Seer/Man of God strand in the Hebrew Bible and carries through to the ministries of men like Jeremiah. The other is the New Testament strand which sees prophecy as a ministry of the church which seems to be about either predicting events (see Agabus in Acts) or revealing hidden but present realities enabling the churches to respond well to situations. 

As I point out above, the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures both seem to distinguish on the one hand between revelations borne to humankind by angels where the angels are given credit for bearing the message and on the other hand messages which appear in the consciousness of people directly by the influence of the Holy Spirit. There are some Christians who would assert that this kind of prophecy has passed away because the closing of the canon of the New Testament. The point being, in this view, that such direct revelation from God is made unnecessary by the existence of the God-inspired Scriptures. For those who accept the possibility of such direct revelation in post-apostolic times, the datum of God-inspired Scriptures means that new revelations must not fundamentally contradict the Scriptures.

Obviously, a Christian in the ceased-revelation school of thought cannot even begin to entertain any claim of new revelation by Mohammed or anyone else, whether or not the label 'prophet' is used. For those in the continuing revelation way of thinking it may not be ruled out of necessity, but the incongruencies of message would. For this school too, the claim to prophethood would look odd against a background of direct revelation if it is actually an angelically mediated message.

The other thing to bear in mind from the Christian point of view is that if Christian claims about Jesus are about right, then there is no greater revelation possible of or from God. The best that Mohammed could do would be to prepare for or clarify the implications of the Christ event. So there is often some incredulity towards the Muslim exaltation of Mohammed over Jesus: it just seems like a category error of the order of magnitude of asking "who made God?".

So could Christians in any way accept the idea that Mohammed was "rasul" of God? Well, if the Qur'an as we have it and the interpretive tradition around it are taken at face value, probably not. The denial of Jesus's ultimacy and decisiveness in the purposes of God by Muslim tradition leaves little but contradiction. The denial of the crucifixion and the misinterpretation of the idea of Trinity have to count against being able to take what we are presented with as the revelation to Mohammed as being of God.

At least, at those points.
But what if the Muslim tradition as it has been presented to us, is in fact 'corrupted'? (And this is a reflex of Muslim claims of corruption of the Bible). First off we might consider that not everything Muslims claim as God's will is actually in the Qur'an. The Qur'an actually only ever names three daily prayers -like Judaic practice and early Christian practice. it is Sunna/tradition that separates out evening prayers into three. So this kind of glimpse into an evolving tradition held together by collections of sayings and doings of Mohammed himself (who moves from being a 'mere' messenger by this to being a perfect exemplar of God's revelation). There is quite some doubt about these hadith and they are generally accepted by the scholarly efforts of early-ish Muslim commentators like Bukhari. But, while revered in the accepted traditions, these collections of hadith that are accepted as well attested may not actually be so.

All of this leaves a possibility of interpreting Mohammed as some kind of man of God, with a ministry to the Arabs. It may have been that his fate could have been to have been like some of the more obscure prophets mentioned in the Hebrew Bible whose words were not much preserved (like Nathan, who came before David and whose only recorded words were to bring David up short with a parable and its application). Perhaps his memory became politically useful for a nascent Arab empire facing two superpower theocracies and needing a counter-narrative to bolster legitimacy and make connection. And so the figure of Mohammed attracted a  stories and sayings which eventually become consolidated in a Qur'an and further on in Hadith and Sunna.

So, if this was possible as a way of looking at Muhammed, then it might be possible for some Christians at least to see him as a man with a vocation to call Arabs to worship one God and to draw them towards the Judeo-Christian revelations. However, we would also want to say that we are fairly skeptical about what is presented by the developed Muslim traditions but believing that there might be at core some genuine experience of God.

The later Muslim traditions about Mohammed turn him into an intercessor and a kind of perfect example of a human being (because what else could someone touched by God to make the final revelation to humankind be?). Christians might be forgiven for suspecting, when we learn of this, that the Christ-shaped hole in the story being filled by Mohammed is suspicious but interesting. It should be noted that this probably drives a Muslim assertion that prophets are all sinless. Of course from the Jewish and Christian perspective this is a claim too far, since our scriptures do not show or claim this of 'prophetic' figures. Part of their 'charm' in our traditions of interpretation is that they are right only in part but can be uncomprehending and wrong at times. If this could be recognised by Muslims as a possibility which could also apply to Mohammed, then they might have less difficulty dealing with some rather scary hadiths.

The problem, it seems to me, for Muslims, is that their tradition has become fossilised at points and in ways that give little room for manoeuvre. That's a shame, because there could be ways for them to reconsider various things if only later tradition hadn't hardened in ways inimical towards Christian claims as they were (mis)understood at that point. 

Of course, my kind of recognition of Mohammed's possible prophethood would be scant comfort to orthodox Islam. My guess is that the original question could have been prompted by a desire to help Christians recognise Mohammed as The Prophet rather than just a prophet. There are understandable reasons for this to be found in the way that the evaluation of the figure of Mohammed evolved towards (in Christian terms) a Christ-substitute (as intermediary between humans and God, as perfect exemplar of God's will etc). However, for Muslims who might be willing to entertain the possibility that the Muslim tradition may have picked up a few bugs and errors in the course of transmission, there are some interesting further conversations to be had. Without that, we'll just have to map out the differences of interpretation and agree to differ, but at least knowing better how we differ and why our respective starting places don't really cut it in the other tradition.

08 December 2012

Home truths for Christians

I think it's important to hear and take seriously the critiques of well-motivated, intelligent and sincere critics. I don't think Christian faith has anything to fear from listening carefully and responding compassionately to what we hear. I think that sometimes we can hear the voice of God in these critiques and in taking them seriously and changing our minds and actions we engage in real repentance.

So let's listen in to an open letter from an atheist to their Christian friend. You should read the whole thing before reacting to the quotes I make so that you can guage the warmth and genuineness; this really isn't an emotionally hostile attack.
 I hope [God] doesn't exist. And that if he does, I hope he's nowhere near as petty as you make out.
'Petty' might be 'arbitrary'. And what I think we need to hear in this is just how implausible our accounts of God seem to others.  And if you don't get it, it's explained towards the end of the article:
we've always been good friends. You know I always try to do what I think is right, yet the God you believe in says I deserve to go to hell, and you still sing his praises.
Now, of course, I 'know' that there's an issue here about moralism and the concept of fallenness, but we should take note that the concept of 'desert' seems so out of whack with the 'crime'. We really do need to get out of that 'game' in terms of how we try to explain our faith; we have to find another way in not predicated on a sense of sin. You see, our 'gospel' was formed in ages when people did tend to have more a sense of guilt and so we tend to answer questions about forgiveness, atonement etc. Our problem now is that we find ourself in the guilt-arousal business because we have realised that our answers require that we conscientise people to the questions they 'should' be asking for our inherited version of the gospel to work and be good news indeed.

It's also not what the NT does. When gospel audiences had questions about sin and guilt, forgiveness and atonement was indeed proclaimed. Interestingly, non-Jewish audiences seemed not to be so concerned about those things and they don't get the same emphases in the gospel they hear. Go on -look in Acts. And those Jewish audiences that get the 'forgiveness' gospel, get it because they become convicted of complicity in the execution of the Messiah. Other audiences get a gospel about Christ's superiority or Christ's victory over death or evil or liberation from humanity-curtailing forces. It seems to me that the problem here is a telling of a cliche'd gospel which lacks resonance because the formula gets in way of understanding the issues and responding appropriately.

I'm interested to read this
I can never argue back because offending someone's religion is a huge taboo.
Because I think for a lot of people, it's true. Yes, there are some who enjoy provoking or 'telling it like it is'. But for most of us, we don't want to offend. And what that makes me think is that we Christians need to get out of the way of the Good News. If people are afraid of airing honest doubts or concerns about our faith, we're in the way of listening and sharing; we've ended up defending ourselves rather than giving an answer for the hope within us -or at least we've given that impression.

What I'm really thinking: the atheist friend | Life and style | The Guardian:

28 March 2011

Dialogue with Humanists?

For Evangelical Christians, as for the Roman Catholics in this article, it is a live issue as to why one would want to be involved in interfaith dialogue. Now a word before you read the quote following and think "hang on; that's not about interfaith dialogue; humanists aren't a faith". Well, I'd point out that the issues are the same and that we sholudn't get hung up on labels. However, there is a case to group together humanists with people who follow Christ, Mohammed/Qur'an, Buddha etc. One of those figures was, apparently, agnostic on the God question which would cohere with the humanist position -at least some versions of it. And if a faith is a belief system that provides perspectives and values for living, then humanism certainly fits with that. In addition consider that the European legislation on religious discrimination etc; usually gets worked out in terms of religions and 'life philosophies'. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that humanism should, in a number of public fora, be grouped with religious and spiritual bodies and movements.

This quote starts from the difficulty that often people who engage in dialogical events can't 'bind' their constituencies to anything they may themselves agree or change their minds about. To do so would be tantamount to saying that a conversion of one agent in such and event would be a conversion of all. Clearly that cannot be: individual conscience still is paramount. So ...
‘If you are not representing anybody, you already know what the other side is going to say, and you’re probably not going to change their minds, why bother?’ He then answered that question by appealing to the importance of ‘civility’. Civility ‘is not about agreement, or even negotiation,’ says Sims. ‘It is about how we can disagree in such a way that we retain the respect of those we disagree with, and build the possibility of common cause on issues beyond our disagreements.’
 What I like about that is the recognition that there is a value in 'civility' based on conviviality, if you like. In a society where there are a number of different views on all sorts of things progress can only be made by agreement, common-cause and/or 'co-belligerancy'. We need to be in the business of creating the conditions for alliances to be made and for disagreements to be worked out with respect and charity. These are matters, in Christian terms, it seems to me, of straightforwardly working out loving ones neighbour. In addition, if we believe that God's mission involves justice, peace and peacemaking, then we cannot avoid effort towards creating the conditions for those things and that means dialogue with others who do not see things as we do.

And in actual fact, if we are broadly right about certain important facets of reality as we think we are, then we are only going to help others to wrestle with that claim and those realities if we prepared to dialogue genuinely. This will mean that we will be changed. But I would argue that this is analogous to the 'change' involved in Incarnation and seen in Jesus' response to the Syro-Phoenician woman. Change doesn't mean necessarily 'apostasy' but could mean a fuller entry into the world of another so that our perspective becomes clearer in other terms than those we started with. This, theologically, in term, may be related to some of the debate about God's impassibility ... but perhaps that would be a longer post than I have time to compose right now. Suffice to say for now Thomas Weinandy and Does God Suffer?

26 January 2011

How a Marxist might see the creed

This is such an intriguing piece. A positive appraisal of the Apostles' Creed from a broadly Marxist point of view.

How about this: "it seems to me that Christianity is materialist in something like the same way. After all, its central doctrine is the incarnation, and Saint Paul taught the resurrection of the body."How a Marxist might see the creed | Mark Vernon | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk:

10 August 2009

Speaking the truth in love

Very interesting in thinking further about our loggerheaded-communion and the proximate occasions of that: In a Godward direction. What really grabbed me as needing further reflection was this insightful phrase: "expounding the truth that leads to unity rather than being in unity leading to truth"
I'd add that it may be that we also, however, need to learn to testify to truth even when it is spoken by those we have come to think of as opponents. And with that realisation (that this is something we may have to do), we are encouraged thereby to offer our own understandings, convictions and critiques with a greater humility.

08 October 2008

More tea wicca?

...that's what I said to a pagan (solitary, self-describing as Wiccan) friend of mine as we chatted about life the universe and stuff; it was a flip remark, made to amuse; but it has stayed with me as somehow eikonic of real interfaith dialogue: exchanging ideas about things we find mutually interesting albeit from different perspectives, and having a chance to laugh about the oddities and quirkiness of situations around the edges of religion, faith and spirituality. Later she said that, in the whole town, why was it that she had to talk to a Church of England priest (vicar=wicca, get it?) to find someone that understood her.
Indeed.
Maybe it was because the path she was on was one I had trodden to different degrees myself: before hearing Christ's call and responding, I had heard the call of nature (no, not that call) and reverenced sunlight on greenery, the woods, the creatures, the cycles of nature and was drawn to an awe-filled response and a desire to express that in 'religious' ways. I was breaking free of the materialistic reductionism of my cultural background but I was not at all drawn to the church of my early childhood.
Maybe it was because like my wiccan friend, I was interested in the implications of quantum physics and chaos theory, and (unlike her?) understood them reasonably well.
Maybe it was because, like CS Lewis before me, I experienced my Christ-ing not as a disenchantment from nature but as a deepening appreciation of it/her and as a way to begin to deal with the root problems of our ecocidal civilisation.
I grok many things that I read Pagans saying. I don't find many of the core things Pagans seem to be concerned about alien to my own faith.
I even grok the distancing from the Christian faith as it is seen and distressingly often experienced by many in our societies. I recall well beginning my own spiritual search with the attitude that the churches had nothing to offer sincere seekers of spiritual truth and experience.
So I hope we can have Christian Pagan encounters where we can listen to one another; laugh with one another; grow to understand one another and finally to dissolve stereotypes and mutual disinformations. It's a risky path though, because the first to tread it (and yes I know that some are already treading it), will face misunderstanding from their peers and even hostility. I know in experience something of that too. I choose carefully whom I tell of my own interest in these spiritual paths. Some of my fellow Christ-followers get rather overly scared about it. They are victims of disinformation, and sometimes perpetrators and it is not an easy fix to challenge what their personal authorities have told them. It must be the same for Pagans.
Tell me: is it?
Here are links to the other participants in this synchroblog


* J. R. Miller (Christian) of More Than Cake on A Christian Approach to Interfaith Dialogue"

* Liz Dyer (Christian) of Grace Rules on Interreligious Dialogue: Risky Business

* Matt Stone (Christian) of Glocal Christianity on Is
Interfaith Interfaith enough?


* Steve Hayes (Christian Orthodox) of Notes from underground on Interreligious dialogue

* K.W. Leslie (Christian / Pentecostal / Assemblies of God) of The Evening of Kent on Gathering with the pagans.

* Phil Wyman (Christian) of Square No More on A Christian Presenter at Pagan Pride!?

* Beth Patterson (Liberal Christian w/ Celtic undertones) of Virtual Tea House on Same Stove, Different Teapots

* Jarred Harris (Pagan/Vanic Witch) of The Musings of a Confused Man on Interfaith relationships

* Yvonne Aburrow (Wiccan Unitarian) of the dance of the elements on Only connect


And here's a link for some matters arising from this synchroblog.

MetaPagan: Synchroblog on interfaith dialogue

14 August 2008

A response to "Final Declaration of the Yale Common Word Conference"

This response to the recent open letters exchanged between many Muslim and some Christian leaders is instructive in, amonge other things, highlighting the potential pitfalls in interfaith relating at official levels. Here are two sections from the Barnabas Fund comments on the Yale group's response:
The opening passage of the declaration includes the Qur’anic commandment to speak to Christians and Jews (Q 3:64), which is actually a call to them to convert to Islam. It also includes the “ascribe no partner” phrase, which is a Muslim critique of the Christian doctrines of the Trinity and the deity of Jesus. Muslims consider these to involve the most grievous sin of shirk (i.e. associating a created being with God) and those who hold them to be infidels (kafirun). It seems that the implications of this verse were not realised or discussed.

The affirmation of the Islamic source texts as “sacred texts” along with the Bible is ambiguous. Many will read it as implying that the Qur’an is a revealed word of God.

Worth reading the whole to get the picture.
� 2006 Barnabas Fund - "Final Declaration of the Yale Common Word Conference, July 2008": - 12 August 2008

The Science And Spirituality Of Addiction

 What drew me in was the collocation of science and spirituality in the title. I'm also a little interested in addiction through having ...